MCViewPoint

Opinion from a Libertarian ViewPoint

Posts Tagged ‘Drones’

SignalGate 2.0 and the Casual Indifference to War

Posted by M. C. on May 27, 2025

We don’t need to ask about the leaks; we need to ask about the normalization of perpetual war.

https://ronpaulinstitute.org/signalgate-2-0-and-the-casual-indifference-to-war/?fbclid=IwY2xjawKfEu9leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETFOQTVxcktKQlBFQkpuMGN2AR63s1rrzPuM3xkDggsUuhmz5J5LniE1xuznbF7bFZwLeNaTYlOVSL-qKNTOGg_aem_XAoe9uC7mupaCKJ4Ojezwg

by Abigail R. Hall

We recently learned that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth shared details of impending drone strikes on Yemen in a group chat with his wife, brother and personal attorney. If this story sounds familiar, it’s because it comes just weeks after national security leaders—including Hegseth—accidentally added Atlantic journalist Jeffrey Goldberg to a Signal chat.

The outrage is understandable. Why were military plans shared on an unsecured channel? Were U.S. personnel put at risk? Why did the president not respond strongly to this apparent breach? And of course, the attempted cover-up is making headlines, too.

Something else strikes me. Few seem angry that the government conducts offensive military operations in a country with which we are not formally at war. Headline after headline emphasizes the leaking of war plans—not the “war” itself.

I’ve studied conflict for over a decade. From terrorism and counterterrorism to the development of drone technology and how foreign intervention alters domestic institutions, I know what war does. It kills. It destroys property and devastates economies. It enables people to do the unthinkable—to rape, torture, maim children, and use them as soldiers. War destroys.

Yet, our secretary of defense tells his brother about coming strikes with the same gravity as he’d relay his grocery list.

What’s equally jarring is the public reaction. People aren’t aghast that U.S. drones are killing people in Yemen. People aren’t batting an eye over officials bypassing Congress’s war powers.

We are more concerned about the data leak than about what the data contains.

This indifference isn’t new

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U.S. airstrikes have killed thousands of civilians, NYT Magazine investigation finds

Posted by M. C. on April 23, 2025

SIMON: The use of drone strikes and air support really increased considerably during the Obama administration and then continued in the Trump and Biden administrations.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/25/1067966116/u-s-air-strikes-have-killed-thousands-of-civilians-nyt-magazine-investigation-fi

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

Drone strikes are supposed to be precise – surgical is the word often used – to target terrorists and threats and avoid killing innocent civilians. But a deep investigation by the New York Times Magazine finds that U.S. airstrikes have killed thousands of civilians – including small children – in places that include Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

Investigative reporter Azmat Khan has spent the last five years reporting on U.S. military drone operations and airstrikes and civilian casualties and joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us.

AZMAT KHAN: Thank you for having me.

SIMON: The use of drone strikes and air support really increased considerably during the Obama administration and then continued in the Trump and Biden administrations. Please remind us why President Obama and others decided to emphasize drone strikes and air support.

KHAN: Absolutely. So this really came out of the discontent many Americans felt for what are now often described as the forever wars. And President Obama, you know, after the surge – which really didn’t turn things around in Afghanistan in the way that was expected as we sort of transitioned towards leaving the country – felt that there was still a need to maintain a presence there. But we didn’t want troops on the ground. And the way that we did that was often through air support – through airstrikes against not only the Taliban but ISIS, as well as air support for Iraqi and Afghan partners – Syrian partners – on the ground as they fought these groups.

SIMON: Yeah. Tell us some of some of what you found that – well, that stays with you in particular.

KHAN: You know, one particular memory that has stayed with me was visiting this hamlet in northern Syria called Tokhar, where nearly 200 people had sort of been sheltering in these houses during the worst of fighting and woke up around 3 a.m. one night in July of 2016 to these homes crumbling on top of them. And while the United States admitted that between seven and 24 civilians were killed in the document I obtained about the investigation into that airstrike, what I found on the ground was at least 120 civilians had died. You know, what I did was I – through the Freedom of Information Act, I got more than 1,500 assessments that the military had conducted into claims of civilian casualties, most of which they deemed noncredible. And one of the largest patterns I found was that they had failed often to detect the presence of civilians before an airstrike.

SIMON: That’s an intelligence failure.

KHAN: Yes, that’s an intelligence failure. I also found the misidentification of targets.

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Pentagon Says US Is Flying Drones Over Gaza to Look for Hostages

Posted by M. C. on November 6, 2023

US special operations forces are also on the ground in Israel

So are the hostages standing in an open field waving signs? The US can’t tell a Reuters reporter from a terrorist from a helicopter let alone high flying drone.

That is how stupid the government and media think we are.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/all-lies-how-the-us-military-covered-up-gunning-down-two-journalists-in-iraq

antiwar.com

by Dave DeCamp

The Pentagon has acknowledged that the US is flying drones over Gaza to help Israel locate hostages, demonstrating deep US involvement in the war.

“In support of hostage recovery efforts, the US is conducting unarmed UAV flights over Gaza, as well as providing advice and assistance to support our Israeli partner as they work on their hostage recovery efforts,” Pentagon spokesman Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said on Friday.

The New York Times reported that the flights started days after October 7, and they are being conducted by MQ-9 Reaper drones, which are capable of carrying powerful missiles. At least six MQ-9s are involved in the operations, which the Times says suggests the US is taking a more “active role” in the war than previously known.

The US has also deployed special operations forces to Israel in the wake of the October 7 attack. US officials said the American commandos are in Israel to help locate hostages and insist they are not assigned to combat roles.

Besides the drone flights and special operations, the US has also shipped new weapons to Israel and deployed significant firepower to the region, including two aircraft carrier strike groups. President Biden is looking for an additional $14 billion to spend on the Gaza onslaught, which is on top of the $3.8 billion Israel receives in annual military aid.

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Despite U.S. Denials… Kiev Regime Hasn’t Gone Rogue With Strikes on Moscow – It’s an Obedient Cat’s Paw

Posted by M. C. on June 3, 2023

Moscow’s dilemma is how to show its Western aggressor that playing with fire means getting burned – without inciting a catastrophic Third World War.

Finian Cunningham

If the United States and its NATO lackeys really wanted to avoid a direct war with Russia, then they know what to do: stop arming the reactionary Kiev regime and get down to serious diplomacy.

This insanely dangerous conflict could end right now.

This week saw a swarm of military drones attack the Russian capital. The Russian authorities claimed that all of the unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down or electronically disabled, but not without some of the aircraft inflicting damage on civilian apartment blocks.

Nearly four weeks ago, a double drone attack was launched on the Kremlin Senate building close to where President Vladimir Putin has a residence.

Moscow has never been attacked in such a symbolic way since the Great Patriotic War when the Soviet Union was fighting Nazi Germany at the very gates of the capital.

Elsewhere across the Russian Federation, Ukrainian drones have targeted major Russian oil and gas installations, as well as military air bases deep inside its territory. Latest reports say Russian children are being evacuated from the Belgorod and Bryansk westerly regions due to constant heavy shelling by Ukrainian forces. Those regions have also seen commando-style incursions by militants using American-supplied armored vehicles. The CIA media front Radio Free Europe is evidently delighted by the anticipated sapping of Russian morale.

Russia is incrementally being subjected to a tightening aggressive vice, which when viewed in perspective presents a shocking attempted assault on its existential interests. Moscow has warned that its national defense doctrine permits the use of nuclear weapons if its existential interests are threatened. The U.S. and its NATO partners are provocatively shaping the Ukraine conflict into Russia’s existential concerns. The aggression is being fully directed and intensified by Washington and its NATO accomplices, in particular Britain.

The nearly 15-month conflict in Ukraine seems to be spiraling uncontrollably toward a direct war between the United States and Russia, the world’s two biggest nuclear powers. Russia did not want this conflict. Its proposals for diplomacy and dialogue over geopolitical security concerns due to NATO expansion were dismissed out of hand by Washington and its European minions in the weeks before the Ukraine war erupted on February 24 last year.

We need to be clear: the onus is on Washington to halt the slide toward world catastrophe.

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Ukraine Wants the US to Provide Cluster Bombs to Use With Drones – News From Antiwar.com

Posted by M. C. on March 7, 2023

Cluster bombs endanger civilians by scattering small bombs across a large area and have been banned by over 100 countries

by Dave DeCamp

https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/06/ukraine-wants-the-us-to-provide-cluster-bombs-to-use-with-drones/

Ukraine has been seeking cluster bombs from the US to use in its war against Russian forces and is now asking for a type of the controversial munition that they want to adapt so they can be dropped from drones, Reuters reported on Monday.

According to House Reps. Adam Smith (D-WA) and Jason Crow (D-CO), Ukraine is seeking the MK-20, an air-delivered cluster bomb. They said Ukrainian officials were asking members of Congress to persuade the White House to sign off on the delivery during the recent Munich Security Conference.

Cluster munitions scatter small bombs over large areas, making them more indiscriminate than other munitions. According to Reuters, the MK-20 releases 240 dart-like submunitions or bomblets after being launched.

The bomblets in cluster munitions often don’t explode on impact, making them a huge danger to civilians who come across them, similar to land mines. The 2008 Convention on Cluster Munitions that bans the weapons has over 100 signatories, but the US, Russia, and Ukraine are not parties to the treaty.

Since Russia launched its invasion in February 2022, both Russian and Ukrainian forces have used cluster munitions. Kyiv was also accused of using the bombs in populated areas of Donestk back in 2014.

While the US hasn’t banned cluster bombs, its forces haven’t used them since one known incident in Yemen in 2009. The US had been producing and selling cluster bombs to its allies until a few years ago. In 2016, Textron Systems Corporation stopped producing MK-20s when the US stopped selling them to Saudi Arabia. But a congressional aide told Reuters that there are about one million of the bombs in US military stockpiles.

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American Taxpayer Rip-off: $3 Million Per Missile For Ukraine To Shoot Down $10,000 Drones

Posted by M. C. on December 15, 2022

The Ron Paul Liberty Report

https://rumble.com/v20ns1k-american-taxpayer-rip-off-3-million-per-missile-for-ukraine-to-shoot-down-1.html

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White House Will Send Tanks, Drones to Ukraine – News From Antiwar.com

Posted by M. C. on November 5, 2022

What weaponry that doesn’t get sold to the highest bidder by one of the most corrupt governments on the planet will likely get taken by Russians.

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/11/04/white-house-will-send-tanks-drones-to-ukraine/

by Kyle Anzalone

The Biden administration approved the 25th round of security assistance for Ukraine on Friday. The latest package of weapons will include upgraded tanks and drones. Kiev recently requested more armored vehicles to push its offensive against Russian forces.

A Pentagon press release said it had purchased 45 refurbished T-72B tanks with advanced optics, communications, and armor. The Department of Defense claims the Netherlands will provide an additional 45 tanks and the Czech Republic will provide additional support, completing the upgrades.

Since the start of the war, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has requested NATO members send their tanks to Ukraine. In separate appeals, Kiev asked for NATO to transfer one percent of their tanks and for Western countries to give Ukraine 500 tanks. Washington and its partners did not fulfill Zelensky’s requests.

In September, the Washington Post reported that Kiev believed it was reaching the “tipping point” and more armored vehicles could help complete its victory. “Kiev believes the requested heavy armor – including battle tanks and personnel carriers – could help shift that turning point into a tipping point.”

Germany rebuffed Ukraine when asked directly for tanks. “No country has delivered Western-built infantry fighting vehicles or main battle tanks so far. We have agreed with our partners that Germany will not take such action unilaterally,” German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said.

The upgraded T-72B tanks the US and Netherlands are buying for Kiev are not NATO models but Soviet-era weapons. Poland and the Czech Republic have already sent Ukraine hundreds of these tanks. Still, Zelensky believes the tanks will aid Kiev’s offensive.

“I am thankful to [Joe Biden] and the people of the [US] for another $400 million military assistance package. For armored vehicles that will help us liberate Ukrainian land. We appreciate this continued support!” the Ukrainian president Tweeted Friday.

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Our troops are targets in Syria. Why is Biden keeping them there? – Responsible Statecraft

Posted by M. C. on October 30, 2021

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/10/28/our-troops-are-targets-in-syria-why-is-biden-keeping-them-there/

Written by
Daniel L. Davis

Last week U.S. forces operating in Syria were attacked by armed drones, allegedly by an Iranian-backed militia. On Tuesday, Al Jazeera reported that senior Biden Administration officials emphasized the president has no intention of withdrawing U.S. troops from Syria. That is a mistake that may, sooner or later, result in yet more pointless deaths of American service members. 

President Biden needs to withdraw all the troops from Syria, immediately.

There are too many among Washington’s foreign policy elite who have become, frankly stated, addicted to the idea of keeping as many American troops deployed in combat operations around the world as possible. For many years they have fought, aggressively, any consideration of withdrawing troops from any fight, anywhere, any time – and except for ending the war in Afghanistan last August, they have succeeded at thwarting any withdrawal. This latest resistance to ending our combat operations in Syria is only the latest example.

In 2014, then-President Obama announced a plan to end the Afghan war and withdraw all U.S. troops by the end of 2016, saying that it was, “time to turn the page on more than a decade in which so much of our foreign policy was focused on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.” Americans, Obama also noted, “have learned that it’s harder to end wars than it is to begin them.” He learned just how hard barely one year later.

In October 2015, Obama retracted his promise to end the withdrawal and decided to punt to the next commander in chief. Yet as the Washington Post’s Craig Whitlock revealed in the 2019 Afghanistan Papers, Obama pulled the plug on the withdrawal because “the president faced countervailing pressures to stay put from the Pentagon and hawks in Congress.” 

Instead of standing up to the pressure because it was the appropriate military response to the strategic circumstances, Obama folded. American troops paid the price in blood for his refusal, as 77 Americans died after 2016 and another 425 were wounded. All of those casualties would have been avoided if Obama had simply resisted the political pressure and done the right thing.

President Trump three times announced he was withdrawing troops from Syria during his term, and twice tried to completely end the war in Afghanistan. In all cases, Trump was fiercely opposed by senior members of his cabinet and national security apparatus and when he left office, none of the missions had ended. Because Trump unwilling to resist the institutional pressure and refused to end either the Syrian deployment or Afghan War on his watch, a number of U.S. troops in both countries were unnecessarily killed and wounded. 

The attack by Iran-backed militia on the U.S. base at Tanf, Syria resulted in no casualties. As a result of the “complex, coordinated and deliberate attack,” Biden is almost certain to come under pressure to retaliate with lethal force against the alleged offending militia members. On Monday at a Pentagon, Press Secretary John Kirby said that he would not “talk about intelligence matters,” but then added that “if there’s to be a response, it’ll be at a time and a place and a manner of our choosing,” indicating the Pentagon is actively examining such options.  

The president has for months been under pressure to respond with lethal force to such attacks. Biden approved airstrikes against targets in eastern Syria in February 2021 after U.S. personnel came under rocket fire in Erbil, Iraq. Before one more American service member pointlessly loses his or her life, it is time to end this unnecessary mission. 

Obama sent U.S. troops into Syria in 2015 to help the Syrian Democratic Forces retake territory from ISIS. The Islamic State operating within the confines of Iraq and Syria were never a credible threat to U.S. security and Obama should never have sent troops in to fight for the benefit of the Iraqi government in Baghdad and the SDF in Syria (and, perversely, to the benefit of Assad in Damascus). ISIS was a direct threat to Iraq, Syria, and the SDF — the burden to defeat ISIS should have rested fully on their shoulders.

But even if one believes we should have fought in Syria and Iraq to deprive ISIS of their territorial holdings, that mission was fully accomplished over two years ago. Since that time, there hasn’t been a valid reason to operate and maintain active combat operations in either country. Remnants of ISIS in those land-locked locations pose no threat to the U.S. that our standard global counterterror capacity can’t handle. I cannot more strongly state: a few hundred combat troops on the ground in Syria do not materially contribute to U.S. national security.

It should be unconscionable to keep American service members at constant risk of their lives and limbs when their presence there is not necessary. It is only a matter of time before one of those rocket attacks finds the mark and Americans are killed or wounded. Biden will then come under enormous pressure to respond militarily. 

The only result of such action will be to increase the tensions, raise the chance of stumbling into a pointless war with Iran, and make the Iranian and militia victims vow yet more revenge against Americans.  It’s time for the president to withdraw our troops and end the unnecessary risk to our troops.

Written by
Daniel L. Davis

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A Tonkin Gulf Incident in the Gulf of Oman? – LewRockwell

Posted by M. C. on August 6, 2021

Whoever launched the drone strike sought to ensure that no new U.S.-Iran deal is consummated, that U.S. sanctions remain in place, and that a U.S. war with Iran remain a possibility.
But, again, why would Tehran carry out such a drone attack and kill crewmen on an Israeli-owned vessel — then loudly deny it?

Those behind this attack on the Israeli-owned vessel do not want to reduce the possibility of war between the United States and Iran.

They want to make it a reality. We ought not accommodate them.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/08/patrick-j-buchanan/a-tonkin-gulf-incident-in-the-gulf-of-oman/

By Patrick J. Buchanan

A week ago, the MT Mercer Street, a Japanese-owned tanker managed by a U.K.-based company owned by Israeli billionaire Eyal Ofer, sailing in the Arabian Sea off the coast of Oman, was struck by drones.

A British security guard and Romanian crew member were killed.

Britain and the U.S. immediately blamed Iran, and the Israelis began to beat the war drums.

Monday, Israeli Defense Minister Benny Gantz said action against Iran should be taken “right now.”

Tuesday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett warned Israel could “act alone.” “They can’t sit calmly in Tehran while igniting the entire Middle East — that’s over,” said Bennett. “We are working to enlist the whole world, but when the time comes, we know how to act alone.”

Wednesday, Gantz ratcheted it up, “Now is the time for deeds — words are not enough. … It is time for diplomatic, economic and even military deeds. Otherwise the attacks will continue.”

Thursday, Gantz went further: “Israel is ready to attack Iran, yes. … We are at a point where we need to take military action against Iran. The world needs to take action against Iran now.”

And what do the Americans say?

“We are confident that Iran conducted this attack,” said Secretary of State Antony Blinken. “We are working with our partners to consider our next steps and consulting with governments inside the region and beyond on an appropriate response, which will be forthcoming.”

Iran, however, has repeatedly denied that it ordered the attack.

What makes the attack puzzling is its timing, as it occurred just days before the inauguration of the newly elected president of Iran, the ultraconservative hardliner Ebrahim Raisi.

Query: Would Raisi have ordered a provocative attack on an Israeli-owned vessel, just days before taking office, when his highest priority is a lifting of the “maximum pressure” sanctions imposed on his country by former President Donald Trump? Why?

Would Raisi put at risk his principal diplomatic goal, just to get even with Israel for some earlier pinprick strike in the tit-for-tat war in which Iran and Israel have been engaged for years? Again, why?

If not Raisi, would the outgoing president, the moderate Hassan Rouhani, have ordered such an attack on his last hours in office and risk igniting a war with Israel and the U.S. that his country could not win?

Could the attack have been the work of rogue elements in the Iranian Republican Guard Corps? Gantz and Foreign Minister Yair Lapid claim that Saeed Ara Jani, head of the drones section of the IRGC, “is the man personally responsible for the terror attacks in the Gulf of Oman.”

Or was this simply a reflexive Iranian reprisal for Israeli attacks?

For years, Israel and Iran have been in a shadow war, with Iran backing Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Houthi rebels in Yemen, and the Shia militia in Syria and Iraq.
Israel has both initiated and responded to attacks with strikes on Iranian-backed militia in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, and by sabotaging Iran’s nuclear program and assassinating its nuclear scientists.

But whoever was behind the attack in the Gulf of Oman, and whatever the political motive, the U.S. was not the target, and the U.S. should not respond militarily to a drone strike that was not aimed at us.

No one has deputized us to police the Middle East, and we have not prospered these last two decades by having deputized ourselves.

With America leaving Afghanistan and U.S. troops in Iraq transiting out of any “combat” role, now is not the time to get us ensnared in a new war with Iran.

Lest we forget. It was in an August, 57 years ago, that the Tonkin Gulf incident occurred, which led America to plunge into an eight-year war in Vietnam.

President Joe Biden’s diplomatic goal with Iran, since taking office, has been the resurrection of the 2015 nuclear deal from which former President Donald Trump walked away. In return for Iran’s reacceptance of strict conditions on its nuclear program, the U.S. has offered a lifting of Trump’s sanctions.

Whoever launched the drone strike sought to ensure that no new U.S.-Iran deal is consummated, that U.S. sanctions remain in place, and that a U.S. war with Iran remain a possibility.
But, again, why would Tehran carry out such a drone attack and kill crewmen on an Israeli-owned vessel — then loudly deny it?

Since he took office, Biden has revealed his intent to extricate the U.S. from the “forever wars” of the Middle East and to pivot to the Far East and China. By this month’s end, all U.S. forces are to be out of Afghanistan, and the 2,500 U.S. troops still in Iraq are to be repurposed, no longer to be designated as combat troops.

Those behind this attack on the Israeli-owned vessel do not want to reduce the possibility of war between the United States and Iran.

They want to make it a reality. We ought not accommodate them.

Patrick J. Buchanan is co-founder and editor of The American Conservative. He is also the author of Where the Right Went Wrong, and Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War. His latest book is Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever See his website.

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The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Fight Another ‘Terror War’ Against Drug Cartels? There’s a Better Way!

Posted by M. C. on December 3, 2019

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/december/02/fight-another-terror-war-against-drug-cartels-theres-a-better-way/

Written by Ron Paul

The 50-year US war on drugs has been a total failure, with hundreds of billions of dollars flushed down the drain and our civil liberties whittled away fighting a war that cannot be won. The 20 year “war on terror” has likewise been a gigantic US government disaster: hundreds of billions wasted, civil liberties scorched, and a world far more dangerous than when this war was launched after 9/11.

So what to do about two of the greatest policy failures in US history? According to President Trump and many in Washington, the answer is to combine them!

Last week Trump declared that, in light of an attack last month on US tourists in Mexico, he would be designating Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. Asked if he would send in drones to attack targets in Mexico, he responded, “I don’t want to say what I’m going to do, but they will be designated.” The Mexican president was quick to pour cold water on the idea of US drones taking out Mexican targets, responding to Trump’s threats saying “cooperation, yes; interventionism, no.”

Trump is not alone in drawing the wrong conclusions from the increasing violence coming from the drug cartels south of the border. A group of US Senators sent a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo urging that the US slap sanctions on the drug cartels in response to the killing of Americans.

Do these Senators really believe that facing US sanctions these drug cartels will close down and move into legitimate activities? Sanctions don’t work against countries and they sure won’t work against drug cartels.

A recent editorial in the conservative Federalist publication urges President Trump to launch “unilateral, no-permission special forces raids” into Mexico like the US did into Pakistan to fight ISIS and al-Qaeda!

I am sure the military-industrial complex loves this idea! Another big war to keep Washington rich at the expense of the rest of us. And the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force can even be trotted out to fight this brand new “terror war”!

Perhaps unintentionally, however, this sudden push to look at the Mexican drug cartels as we did ISIS and al-Qaeda does make sense. After all, the rise of the drug cartels and the rise of the terror cartels have both been due to bad US policy. It was the US invasion of Iraq based on neocon lies that led to the creation of ISIS and expansion of al-Qaeda in the Middle East and it was the US war on drugs that led to the rise of the drug cartels in Mexico.

Here’s another suggestion: maybe instead of doing the same things that do not work we might look at the actual cause of the problems. The US war on drugs makes drugs enormously profitable to Mexican suppliers eager to satisfy a ravenous US market. A study last year by the CATO Institute found that with the steady decriminalization and legalization of marijuana across the United States, the average US Border Patrol agent seized 78 percent less marijuana in fiscal year 2018 than in FY 2013.

Instead of declaring war on Mexico, perhaps the answer to the drug cartel problem is to take away their incentives by ending the war on drugs. Why not try something that actually works?

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